[Tuckerman]

Two weeks here has confirmed what I suspected when I was here last in 1990-this is a fantastic Asian food town, right up there with Bangkok, Singapore, Hong Kong and, reputedly Tokyo.

Anyone who tells you that you can get better Indian food in London, or anywhere else than in India just does not know what they're talking about if this place is anything to gauge India by.

Of course you have to know where to eat and to that end my 150 Rupee (about 1.80) investment in the Times of India Good Food Guide to Mumbai 2005 has proved a sound one.

But from 5 star hotel restaurant to pavement Thali and Dosa House, everything is bursting with freshness and flavour. Everything is clearer and more intense than in Indian restaurants in the UK.. For instance, at the Breach Candy (sic) Club, the chef told me that he prepared the astonishing Lamb Curry by roasting almonds until they were golden brown, then grinding all the masalsas and roasting the spices, the cooking with Tamarind (a marvellous ingredient) with the onions until he had a dark brooding, chocolate coloured sauce which he just lightened and glossed with a little cream . It was nutty, sweet-sour, fragrant, subtle-as good a sauce as I've had anywhere, anytime

At The Konkan Cafe, the lighter cuisine of Coastal India from Mumbai to Kerala is presented-different kinds of rice are explained, coconut is used in myriad ways-there are a range of Goan Vinegars, aged differently and as prized for their subtlety as Balsamic. Fruits are used imagainatively in savoury dishes. Chutneys are made with Bitter Gourd, MInt, Coconut etc. Fish and Seafood are subtley cooked. Once he knew I was interested the chef was voluble and kept bringing out delectable different morsels to try.

Despite the poverty and squalor there is demand for good food here. Bollywood and the Indian entertanment industry is here. Much internanational business is conducted here. There are people with money who want to eat well.

Another factor is that labour is so cheap and plentiful here that these restaurants can employ armies of workers. Therefore everything can be prepared from scratch. People chop and shred and stonegrind the spices by hand, make the masalas, prepare the basis for each dish individually etc. There is no corner cutting and it tells in the finished product.

This trip has re affirmed my love of Indian food. It is my desert island cuisine.There is plenty of Chinese and Thai and some Japanese and Italian here (French and other Western cuisines are STILL subsumed under the name"Continental"-there is a very expensive Continental restaurant in the Taj Hotel serving foie fras, caviar, salmon, New Zealand Duckling, French Lamb etc. I have no desire whatsoever to eat such stuff in Mumbai,but this would be the place if you couldn't live without a French food fix).

But for my two weeks I am craving Indian and more Indian-North Indian, Coastal Indian, South Indian, Bengali Indian Gujerati and Rajasthasni Thalis, Vegetarian Indian-all the rgiona are represented and there is a strong interest in regional differences.

[Lippy]

This sounds wonderful, Tuckerman, just as I always imagined it would be. More details, please.

[NeroW]

Yeah. Thanks for the post.

[mongo_jones]

what a coincidence. i just returned (to delhi) from four days in bombay. here is where i ate:

1. m (at the hyatt)
2. swati snacks
3. the legendary anant ashram (no, "the legendary" isn't in the name)
4. britannia
5. ankur
6. indigo
7. golden thali
8. new martin's

with a couple of exceptions mostly outstanding. any overlaps tuckerman? we were scheduled to visit konkan cafe on saturday night but they had only a parsi buffet that night (for parsi new year) and we'd been to brittania for lunch. and my friends insist ankur is just as good/better than konkan cafe at a much lower price. still, i'm sad i missed it.

[Tuckerman]

mongo_jones, on Aug 20 2005, 04:02 PM, said:

what a coincidence. i just returned (to delhi) from four days in bombay. here is where i ate:

1. m (at the hyatt)
2. swati snacks
3. the legendary anant ashram (no, "the legendary" isn't in the name)
4. britannia
5. ankur
6. indigo
7. golden thali
8. new martin's

with a couple of exceptions mostly outstanding. any overlaps tuckerman? we were scheduled to visit konkan cafe on saturday night but they had only a parsi buffet that night (for parsi new year) and we'd been to brittania for lunch. and my friends insist ankur is just as good/better than konkan cafe at a much lower price. still, i'm sad i missed it.

No overlaps there Mongo, although if I'd stayed longer Indigo, Ankur and New Martin's would definitely have been visited.

We ate at:

Kandahar
Chetana
Khyber
Copper Chimney
Trishna
Konkan Cafe
Jimmy Boy
Tiffin
The Sun

plus a couple of street snacks, vendor stalls.

I was stunned by the quality. Even though I'd been here before, it was a revelation because I took more care where and what I ate this time. It's really spoilt Indian restaurants in London for me as they are just not in the same league. I have to say I enjoyed it far more than my recent jaunt through Michelin starred France I could live on this type of food forever

[Orik]

While you know I'm going to disagree with you that the food is good because of the high Gini coefficient , it sounds great. Particularly that lamb curry that I think I've tried to prepare before (or a similar almond+tamarind/onion based prep), but with less than stellar results.

Quote

But for my two weeks I am craving Indian and more Indian-North Indian, Coastal Indian, South Indian, Bengali Indian Gujerati and Rajasthasni Thalis, Vegetarian Indian-all the rgiona are represented and there is a strong interest in regional differences.

Do you think that better examples of those regional cuisines exist outside Mumbai?

[mongo_jones]

Tuckerman, on Aug 23 2005, 02:59 AM, said:

No overlaps there Mongo, although if I'd stayed longer Indigo, Ankur and New Martin's would definitely have been visited.

We ate at:

Kandahar
Chetana
Khyber
Copper Chimney
Trishna
Konkan Cafe
Jimmy Boy
Tiffin
The Sun

plus a couple of street snacks, vendor stalls.

I was stunned by the quality. Even though I'd been here before, it was a revelation because I took more care where and what I ate this time. It's really spoilt Indian restaurants in London for me as they are just not in the same league. I have to say I enjoyed it far more than my recent jaunt through Michelin starred France I could live on this type of food forever

perhaps on your next visit you might visit some of these places. i'd certainly recommend anant ashram, swati snacks and ankur enthusiastically as can't-miss places. this was only my second visit to bombay and i liked eating there so much i'm coming back on every trip (with the very envious mrs. jones in tow). the night-life i'm more ambivalent about. some of my friends there are in the fashion world and they took me to a few hotspots--i was mostly unmoved.

i assume the kandahar you refer to is the bombay branch of the oberoi original in delhi? if it is as good as the delhi one it must be pretty good--i remember astounding breads in particular. but i'm surprised no one told you to try the outpost of dum pukht or peshawari if you were going to eat north indian food in bombay. coming from delhi i didn't want to eat north indian food, since there are only a couple of places there than can even approach delhi's best. and so for indian i stuck with things i cannot get in delhi (let alone in the u.s): mostly malvani and gujarati stuff, with some parsi and goan thrown in. however, i was told that outside the 5-stars copper chimney and khyber are the places to go for north indian.

for what it is worth--probably very little since i have never eaten there--my friends/guides in bombay (among them some ardent foodies and one food journalist) insisted i not go to trishna, which apparently became trendy some while back and has seen its food suffer terribly with its clientele shifting. similarly, i was told that there is a dearth of decent parsi and goan restaurants in bombay and that even the best are not very good. (this is partly why i wanted to go to konkan cafe--for goan.) i didn't think my lunch at martin's was anything extraordinary (the sorpotel was good but the vindaloo ordinary) and while i enjoyed the food at brittania (jimmy boy was also pooh-pooh'ed by my local friends) apparently the only way to get good parsi food in bombay is to be invited to a parsi wedding. the other option for my last lunch (we went to martin's) was chetana but having eaten a gujju thali the previous night i feared i'd suffer a coronary if i entered another gujju eatery so soon after.

what sort of food do they serve at the sun and tiffin?

since you've eaten at london's high end indian places how would you say they compare to the high end places in bombay?

where did you eat your bhelpuri? and how did you like it?

[mongo_jones]

Orik, on Aug 23 2005, 04:08 AM, said:

Quote

But for my two weeks I am craving Indian and more Indian-North Indian, Coastal Indian, South Indian, Bengali Indian Gujerati and Rajasthasni Thalis, Vegetarian Indian-all the rgiona are represented and there is a strong interest in regional differences.

Do you think that better examples of those regional cuisines exist outside Mumbai?

well, bombay only has two bengali restaurants. if you want to eat good bengali food in india and you don't have bengali friends you'll have to go to calcutta (though even there there's only about 6-7 serious bengali eateries). bombay is not particularly good for udipi food (the kind of vegetarian south indian food most people are familiar with). some of my friends even insist that delhi has better udipi food! nor did anyone suggest to me that i needed to try kerala cooking in bombay. for the best of kerala food you have to go to kerala--though delhi does have a couple of pretty good places. for north indian and frontier food bombay cannot hold a candle to delhi--which only makes sense. the food reasons to go to bombay are 1) konkani/malvani/coastal seafood and 2) gujarati food. the latter has a different incarnation in bombay than it does in gujarat, where apparently snack shops, rather than restaurants, abound. (we should remember that the old bombay state split into the modern states of maharashtra and gujarat.) the gujaratis do seem to be the most enthusiastic diners-out in bombay.

if you compare the food scenes in delhi and bombay the verdict might be that while bombay has much less good north indian, it does have branches of a couple of excellent high-end delhi places whereas while delhi does have far superior north indian food (including a couple of kashmiri places) it absolutely doesn't have gujarati or konkani food that can compare. and delhi doesn't have any parsi, goan or bengali restaurants worth visiting. so bombay has it over delhi if you want to visit only one indian city as a foodie. but the smart thing to do is to fly into bombay, make side visits to goa and kerala from there, make a brief appearance in calcutta and then fly out of delhi. (since delhi, unlike bombay, has an outpost of saravana bhavan the udipi angle is also covered).

[mongo_jones]

a copy of a more detailed account of my bombay eating posted elsewhere (and hence the references to people not on mouthfuls):

Quote

1) dinner on thursday night at the swanky m in the swanky hyatt near the airport. in the company of my friend archana (who was buying) and some others. they seem to specialize in grilled meats and fish (almost all imported) and it is all quite nicely done. i got the lamb chops (imported from australia) and they were actually cooked rare as i'd asked. also had a very nice cocktail called the "hot and dirty" which had a hot red chilli floating on top. this after a disastrous first cocktail called "preity" or something like that (i'd insisted on a bollywood themed drink). my reaction to this was similar to my reaction to the actress it is named after.

2) friday lunch with rushina at swati snacks in tardeo. excellent company, excellent food. rushina was uncooperatively fasting so i had to do most of the damage on my own. i got the bhelpuri, panki with chutney, and the bajra roti with guava shaak. all just excellent. oh yes, i also got two lethal malai malpuas to end.

3) dinner with vikram (vikdoc) at the legendary anant ashram in girgaum. there is no way we would have found this place if we hadn't first met vikram at the central plaza cinema. there we got caught in a torrential downpour, and eventually made our way to anant ashram. i wasn't expecting it to be as downhome in appearance as it is. luckily, thanks to the rain, we were the first to arrive for dinner (though it began to fill up gradually as the rain subsided). left the ordering to vikram. we got the prawns, the theesrya and the surmai--both gassi (?) and fried. there was also an excellent bhaji of some sort. the fried fish was questionable but everything else was exceptional in its simple goodness. vikram warned me against asking if i could take photos so i engaged in guerilla photography--almost got busted once. while they did have signs asking people to shut up and eat (well, not in those words) in general they were not kharoos at all, and we all hypothesized that the unfriendliness of anant ashram may largely be just part of its myth.

4) lunch on saturday with archana and her boyfriend (in whose apartment i was staying) at brittania in ballard estate. this being parsi new year we were afraid we might not get a table but when we arrived it was all but empty. however, i needed to use the bathroom and the bathroom there was under repair--i was invited to inspect it and the experience almost put me off of food and drink forever. so, we repaired to a finer establishment for toilet-related activities and returned to brittania 20 minutes later to find it now all but full. luckily we got a table and were able to get down to business. we got the mutton dhansak, the chicken berry pulao, the patra nu macchi, and the mutton sali boti. plus some chapatis. the dhansak underwhelmed me but all else was excellent. ended with their caramel custard. additional interest provided by our waiter who smashed bottles and dropped things like he was auditioning for an early silent film.

5) dinner with lunch companions and old friend mahesh murthy at ankur in fort. we'd originally planned to go to the konkan cafe. that is to say, i'd planned to go there and my friends had all been trying to convince me to go to ankur instead (as good food, lower prices was the refrain). their plans came to fruition when it turned out that konkan cafe only had a parsi buffet that night (for parsi new year--apparently they mark it this way every year). so we repaired to ankur instead and had an all-around excellent meal. highlights included the prawns koliwada on sticks, the crab butter-pepper-garlic (looked and tasted very different from the excellent one at swaagath in new delhi), the pomfret thekaddy, the surmai gassi, well , everything really.

6) lunch on sunday with my hosts and some of their friends at indigo. i usually steer clear of "continental" food in india but couldn't resist the temptation to visit one of the city's hottest food spots. they had a an appetizers/salad buffet with a choice of entree (and unlimited drinks). all for rs. 1200. food was all excellent. the scene was interesting to survey but too much space was taken up by one extended family's birthday celebrations--these people essentially took over the restaurant, at one point even taking over the microphones from the bemused band. but this too was amusing in its own way. in staggering coincidence bumped into someone i used to work with in los angeles and who now lives in spain.

7) dinner with hosts and another old friend at golden thali (not sure exactly where this is). apparently one of their favorite places for gujju thalis. they were having some sort of a rajasthani festival so the special thali featured gujju, rajasthani and hybrid dishes. all excellent, but i don't think it is possible to eat a meal like that more than once a month. everything was covered in ghee, and even the ghee was garnished with ghee.

8) lunch on monday with sue at new martin's in colaba. we met at the jehangir art gallery, browsed there briefly and then sue gave me a wonderful impromptu walking tour of the neighbourhood. we were heading to a place called paradise but it was closed (story of my life). so we changed course and went to new martin's. we got the sorpotel, vindaloo and another surmai curry. other than the sorpotel i didn't really think anything was particularly noteworthy. we shared the table with an incredibly beautiful college-going couple--they struck up a conversation with us and we discussed current english hons. curriculums (they're both lit. students), bombay vs. calcutta (the young man was from cal) and the merits of digital photography. the young man had some romantic ideas about photography that sue quite cruelly crushed.

and then i returned to delhi.

photographs were taken at all these meals and will be posted further. other things were also done in the city but more on those in other threads.

[Tuckerman]

mongo_jones, on Aug 21 2005, 08:18 AM, said:

i assume the kandahar you refer to is the bombay branch of the oberoi original in delhi? if it is as good as the delhi one it must be pretty good--i remember astounding breads in particular. but i'm surprised no one told you to try the outpost of dum pukht or peshawari if you were going to eat north indian food in bombay.

Yes, Kandahar is in the Oberoi Hotel. I considered Dum Pukht, but the hotel is it in is right out by the airport-a bit of a schlep there and back from downtown Bombay. Tiffin is the coffee shop in the Oberoi but I nevertheless had a lovely one dish Murgh dish there. The Sun is a vegetarian restaurant in Breach Candy-near my friend's home.

I can't judge Trishna against how it used to be but I had two lovely meals there, althought it is very cramped. We were wary of fish and seafood during monsoon season, but lobsters and crabs were bought out live for us to inspect and were clearly sparklingly fresh. We also has Pomfret steamed in Banana Leaf with a Green Masala sauce which didn't overwhelm the fish.

I loved the emphasis on regionality in Bombay. We don't have that in London. The high end chefs like Vineet Bhatia have Frenchified the cuisine. Sometimes it tastes great but they've lost touch with regional roots. A place like Konkan Cafe can serve up sophisticated cusisne while still retaining links to the coastal cuisines it specialises in. It explores cuisine, and I really like that

[FaustianBargain]

mongo_jones, on Aug 23 2005, 10:29 AM, said:

so bombay has it over delhi if you want to visit only one indian city as a foodie. but the smart thing to do is to fly into bombay, make side visits to goa and kerala from there, make a brief appearance in calcutta and then fly out of delhi. (since delhi, unlike bombay, has an outpost of saravana bhavan the udipi angle is also covered).

sarvana bhavan is veg madras 'urban' food while udipi is traditional karnataka vegetarian fare. the difference is probably subtle, but the natives would disagree. very loudly.

i agree with mongo re detour to goa and kerala. i'd probably add chennai, but wouldnt want to inflict the infamous chennai weather upon anyone.

if you like to read > food articles ...scroll down a bit to the 'cuisine' section.

[Tuckerman]

One thing I did notice was that some waiters seemed concerned to steer me away from things they thought were "too spicy". When I asked advice on the menu it would come in the form of "very spicy", or "too spicy for you", or "have that, it's not so spicy". At Trishna a particularly pushy waiter told me that I wouldn't like something because it was "far too spicy"

It's as if some of them have not yet realised that many Westerners know about "spicy" food, eat it often, and may well want to eat it when they come to Bombay. It's something they need to learn because this happened frequently enough to be tedious.

[Tamar G]

These descriptions are great. I'm living vicariously.

[mongo_jones]

FaustianBargain, on Aug 23 2005, 05:29 AM, said:

sarvana bhavan is veg madras 'urban' food while udipi is traditional karnataka vegetarian fare. the difference is probably subtle, but the natives would disagree. very loudly.

well, that shows you how far i can be trusted with indian cuisines outside my direct experience.

tuckerman, the phenomenon you describe is one of the symptoms cited to me of trishna's decline. my friend's boyfriend is french but we encountered no such questions/concerns at any of the places we went to with him. at anant ashram, in particular, they're not very interested in any such communication--they tell you what's available, you tell them what you want, they bring it, you sod off. probably not unrelated to the fact that they probably don't see enough foreigners there to worry about their possible needs.

[FaustianBargain]

mongo_jones, on Aug 23 2005, 03:46 PM, said:

FaustianBargain, on Aug 23 2005, 05:29 AM, said:

sarvana bhavan is veg madras 'urban' food while udipi is traditional karnataka vegetarian fare. the difference is probably subtle, but the natives would disagree. very loudly.

well, that shows you how far i can be trusted with indian cuisines outside my direct experience.

gah mongo..i hope i didnt come off sounding like a pompous ass.