[Sneakeater]

In an article in The Altantic, Jenifer Lang -- who used to run the Cafe des Artistes in New York with her husband, George -- says that the Danny Meyer service model has queered the restaurant experience in America:

[A]long came Union Square Café, which started the trend of what I call "not my father's restaurant" places. The food was great, the service attentive without being intimidating, and the customer could do no wrong. Customers were seduced by the lack of formality, and started to feel entitled. Chris Cannon, who owns Marea, the hotspot of the moment in New York, calls this the "Danny Meyer effect". It made diners presumptuous and aggressive. The waiters got cranky. Service started to suffer.

She and a coterie of industry insiders then go on to give a list of cliched ways to get good service that we've all heard a million times before.

I'm interested in discussing her initial point. I sort of agree with it.

(It's why I think the service at Meyer's Eleven Madison Park is inappropriate to the food.)

[Cathy]

I think this is an excellent article.

[mongo_jones]

One mistake I know not to make is an easy one, for instance: my dad's innocent but to me really annoying habit of always quizzing the waiter about his order. "Which would you choose? The duck or the fish?" It makes me crazy. I know too much to do something like that. The waiter will recommend whatever makes his job easier—the dish that comes out of the kitchen fastest, for example, or whatever the chef wants to get rid of that night ("push the snapper").

Eric Ripert has a good idea about how to figure out what's good—he asks the waiter if he would eat the dish himself; if the guy or woman says no (and dares admit it), you've got your answer.

[g.johnson]

Remind me never to go to dinner with Mary Sue Milliken.

[splinky]

Remind me never to go to dinner with Mary Sue Milliken.

on top of all that she'll steal your husband

[Rail Paul]

In an article in The Altantic, Jenifer Lang -- who used to run the Cafe des Artistes in New York with her husband, George -- says that the Danny Meyer service model has queered the restaurant experience in America:

[A]long came Union Square Café, which started the trend of what I call "not my father's restaurant" places. The food was great, the service attentive without being intimidating, and the customer could do no wrong. Customers were seduced by the lack of formality, and started to feel entitled. Chris Cannon, who owns Marea, the hotspot of the moment in New York, calls this the "Danny Meyer effect". It made diners presumptuous and aggressive. The waiters got cranky. Service started to suffer.

She and a coterie of industry insiders then go on to give a list of cliched ways to get good service that we've all heard a million times before.

I'm interested in discussing her initial point. I sort of agree with it.

(It's why I think the service at Meyer's Eleven Madison Park is inappropriate to the food.)

Yeah.

Give customers good service, good food, and a reasonable price point. Bad move. They get accustomed to good treatment, and that's not good for the traditional business model. We don't want cranky waiters...

[Sneakeater]

I mean, I see your point, obviously. But that's not it, exactly.

It's more like, cater to customers in an informal way and they forget that they're in someone's business, that there are things they can reasonably expect and things they can't, and that they're just there for dinner.

[Sneakeater]

It leads to things like in that article quoted in another thread, where some journalist complained about restaurants' checking your name on the list when you state you've arrived with a reservation.

[Wilfrid]

...you were seated as soon as you got there, the captain greeted you and took your order, the waiter served you, the sommelier poured your wine, you drank coffee and brandy and tipped the maitre d'hotel on your way out.

Well, I have to say I don't miss separately tipping each of those people (and she forgot to mention the coat check). I think I last saw separate tips on the check for captain and waiter at La Grenouille, and hopefully the practice has been abandoned there.

I've done the Mary Sue Milliken trick myself, but have come to understand that it does leave the other members of the dining party feeling disenfranchised.

[Orik]

For example, if I go into any restaurant, high-end or coffee shop, and see that a large group of people has just been seated, I know to get our order into the kitchen very fast. The cooks will be slammed trying to get the big order out, and we'll have no luck catching the waiter once he's started to serve the crowd.

Words to live by at Spicy Mina, or die hungry.

[Orik]

When all else fails, try drinking. Paul Guzzardo told me, "Wine is the easiest first marker that you deserve more attention. Servers are adept at calculating potential tips against opportunity cost in time. If you are splitting dishes, only drinking tap water, most likely you will end up with the minimal amount of face-time with the waiter. He has two to three hours to make his money and needs to maximize a potential tip with each table visit."

As advocated on MF - if you go to a lousy restaurant and order a bottle of wine that's marked up by $300, you can easily buy 5 extra minutes of attention from your highly paid server.

[Orik]

Drew Nieporent, the owner of Corton and many other restaurants around the world, says succinctly, "You would try to avoid a highway at rush hour, so why would you go into a restaurant in the middle of a busy dinner and demand special service?" He adds: "You want good service? Come early and be prompt to order. Be clear in how you order, and be polite."

Right, come early so you get snide comments from his asshole waiters and a close view of his ass.

[OTB]

In an article in The Altantic, Jenifer Lang -- who used to run the Cafe des Artistes in New York with her husband, George -- says that the Danny Meyer service model has queered the restaurant experience in America:

[A]long came Union Square Café, which started the trend of what I call "not my father's restaurant" places. The food was great, the service attentive without being intimidating, and the customer could do no wrong. Customers were seduced by the lack of formality, and started to feel entitled. Chris Cannon, who owns Marea, the hotspot of the moment in New York, calls this the "Danny Meyer effect". It made diners presumptuous and aggressive. The waiters got cranky. Service started to suffer.

She and a coterie of industry insiders then go on to give a list of cliched ways to get good service that we've all heard a million times before.

I'm interested in discussing her initial point. I sort of agree with it.

(It's why I think the service at Meyer's Eleven Madison Park is inappropriate to the food.)

That's such a batshit crazy analysis I'm not even going to comment any further. It's called "Self-entitledism".

[Lex]

She seems to be nostalgic for the good old days when diners knew their place and restaurants held the whip hand. Sorry Jenifer - the world has changed.

Sure, there are some customers who now have a new stage to play out their entitlement issues but they remain a minority. The rest of us walk in with well developed expectations of good service and well prepared food. If you meet them you'll succeed.

[Rail Paul]

She seems to be nostalgic for the good old days when diners knew their place and restaurants held the whip hand. Sorry Jenifer - the world has changed.

Sure, there are some customers who now have a new stage to play out their entitlement issues but they remain a minority. The rest of us walk in with well developed expectations of good service and well prepared food. If you meet them you'll succeed.

If you don't meet the expectations of your customers, as in the case of Cafe des Artistes, you'll go out of business.