[Tamar G]

for me the issue is that, more and more, people don't seem to pay attention to the world around them, or the people in it. You can see it when someone is walking down a crowded street during rush hour looking at their blackberry, so everyone is forced to move around them or get plowed into; or when people don't have the basic courtesy to hold the door for someone else, whether male or female; or when pregnant women (or parents with young children!) are standing in a crowded subway car; or at how badly people drive without paying attention to the other drivers on the road. It's a shame that as the world gets increasingly smaller, we have less and less regard for the people around us. Even if they are strangers. Or tourists. (except, damn- do they have to ALWAYS be in my way? )

[mongo_jones]

Wilfrid, on Jun 21 2005, 10:33 AM, said:

Daisy, on Jun 21 2005, 11:31 AM, said:

MyKong, on Jun 21 2005, 12:26 PM, said:

GG Mora, on Jun 21 2005, 10:44 AM, said:

I don't attach any gender politics to the door-holding thing. It's rude when someone – male or female – lets the door slam in my face. And I hold the door for anyone – male, female, young, old, polished, ragged – because I live in a world full of other people who deserve as much respect and consideration as I do.

Exactly.

Amen.

Mmm.

But that's not "old fashioned manners".

i just want to make it clear that no one, NO ONE, deserves as much respect and consideration as i do. and you better not trail in the lane when i come through. i'm just saying.

all mrs. jones wants is that i walk alongside her when in public--kinda hard since i am 6 feet tall and she's about 2 feet, 3. but she's one of those feministic people. as am i.

[Squeat Mungry]

I find that all the possibly-interpreted-as-sexist "manners" are so ingrained in me (my mother was both thorough and exacting) that I often have to try very hard to battle my instincts when I sense they will be unwelcome or inappropriate.

That said, some of my lady-friends I have known the longest swear that they love it when I hold doors for them, walk curbside on the sidewalk, lead them up and follow them down stairways, etc.

Cheers,

Neil

[mongo_jones]

i am confused by the constant reference to "ladies" in this discussion. there are ladies on mouthfuls? who are they and why have i never received pm's from them?

[rancho_gordo]

mongo_jones, on Jun 21 2005, 06:11 PM, said:

i am confused by the constant reference to "ladies" in this discussion. there are ladies on mouthfuls? who are they and why have i never received pm's from them?

Everyone knows it's not old fashioned good manners to expose one's nipple in public without first treating yourself to a treatment of Nair. Or Photoshop.

[tanabutler]

I am big on opening doors for people behind me, and letting men open doors for me, if they like, but I would never be a ballbuster about it if a man failed to do so.

My friend, Charley, rushes to beat me to opening my car door for me (my car, when I'm driving), to the point where it's embarrassing because it slows me down. But I let him, and he gets to feel gallant, as he was brought up that way. (And of course, my little ol' brain would bust if I had to remember how to open a door.)

The "women are weaker than men" issue doesn't really hold up to the "are you strong enough to open a door?" argument, though I know what dear Miss Manners has to say on the subject.

"Technically there is no such thing as accidental rudeness. [A] true insult, Miss Manners believes, must be intentional. The insulter must understand what is being expected, and do either something else or nothing at all."

I am sure the offenders who don't open the door aren't aware that they are insulting a true lady.

EDITED to insert "they" in the last sentence.

This post has been edited by tanabutler: 22 June 2005 - 12:33 AM

[Tamar G]

Squeat Mungry, on Jun 21 2005, 06:04 PM, said:

lead them up and follow them down stairways, etc.

is that the rule? If I am in heels I want you behind me, going up, and in front of me going down, so that you can break my fall.

[flyfish]

Of course, to complicate things, apparently a gentleman should enter a revolving door BEFORE a lady, to get it going for her (I believe I saw that in Miss Manners one time). But NObody knows this.

Fly

[Wilfrid1]

I know it, and I do it if I am with people I know, but there is a limit to my powers of concentration when it comes to strangers. As I have mentioned before, what I do really enjoy is letting a significantly older person into a revolving door first, then sticking my hands in my pockets and letting them do the hard work.

It is not up there with shoving a tourist down an escalator, but it lightens my day.

[mongo_jones]

flyfish, on Jun 21 2005, 01:54 PM, said:

Of course, to complicate things, apparently a gentleman should enter a revolving door BEFORE a lady, to get it going for her (I believe I saw that in Miss Manners one time). But NObody knows this.

Fly

when giving the finger to a lady, are you supposed to extend the pinky on the relevant hand? please get back to me quickly on this--the light is about to change.

[flyfish]

mongo_jones, on Jun 21 2005, 05:08 PM, said:

when giving the finger to a lady, are you supposed to extend the pinky on the relevant hand? please get back to me quickly on this--the light is about to change.

Now Mongo, one would never have cause to give the finger to a lady. That slattern in the other car, however, is asking for it.

Fly

[bloviatrix]

flyfish, on Jun 21 2005, 03:54 PM, said:

Of course, to complicate things, apparently a gentleman should enter a revolving door BEFORE a lady, to get it going for her (I believe I saw that in Miss Manners one time). But NObody knows this.

Fly

I once had a boss who would make a point of always stating this rule with revolving doors before going first. After the 20th time I wanted to smack him.

[rancho_gordo]

Yes, but should a gentleman offer a lady a Tiparillo?

[omnivorette]

Oh yes, please.

[mcj]

"Good manners" are never "old fashioned".

"Nowadays", they're more and more uncommonly called "common courtesy".