That's my response, too, though one day I had the good fortune to be holding a well-sprung screen door (I love Vermont's old general stores) for some asshole who couldn't even be bothered to make eye contact. I let go of the door so it hit him smartly on his ass.

True story. Several years ago I had to testify in case at the Federal Courthouse. Three guys enter the door right in front of me and let the door slam close. I'm about to say something when I realize the guy in the middle is in handcuffs.

That's no excuse.

my most pissed off version of this is when I end up unintentionally holding the door for everyone and their mother. This usually happens when I'm leaving a store with 2 doors that open inwards. I pull open the one on the right to leave and the asshole walking in sees that a door is open and lazily avoids the closed door in order to walk through the one I opened. In this case, they never say thank you. Then everyone coming in behind them decides to follow them through the door I'm holding instead of opening the other door, again, usually with no thanks. After 2 or 3 people I start saying "welcome to [store name]" in a falsely cheerful voice, looking more and more pissed until someone realizes that I'm not holding the door for my health and lets me out. In just about every instance the person who finally lets me out is a man whose girlfriend has just barged through the door without giving me a second glance. This seems to happen an awful lot in Soho.

That's my favorite sport!

Another one today.

If you get off an escalator at the top, and stand still - hey, guess what happens? Yeah, we all go piling into the back of you.

What is so difficult...?

Does it bother you when a young woman doesn't hold the door open for you?

She did a skit on Carol Burnett where she held the door open for Harvey Korman and he was unable to walk through it.

There's nothing right or wrong about it but it does suggest he is somehow taking care of her or watching out for her. If he is doing it because she is a woman, it is then sexist. Not wrong or right but a gender-based decision and there is a subtext there, to interpret as you will.

Personally, I like to practice the whoever-gets-to-the-door-first method, holding it open for those who follow, not based on gender.

But the worst (and I'm not saying you do this) are women who expect and demand that a fella open the door for her, simply because she is a lady. Ussually these aren't "ladies". These are the same women who sit in the car like a beached whale waiting for the gentleman to open the car door. My grandmother used to like my grandfather to do this but she would always fuss about, looking for her purse, or touch up her make up and then act surprised by the time he made his way round to open the door for her. "Oh, why thank you, dear!"

Gosh, I call that a "gift-with-purchase"!

Of course I don't do that. But when logistically possible, Eyebrows opens the door for me and holds it for me. And I like it a lot. It feels caring and considerate and makes me feel like a lady.

How about when a few men are standing in front of the elevator waiting for it to open, but then a woman elbows her way through because she thinks she should get on first. And then she elbows her way through the people in the car because she thinks she should get off first.

This is exactly why I live in the country- no elevator manners to deal with!

I hope you don't hear any "edge: in my voice. In the big scheme of things, this is a pretty nothing issue for me, but why? How does it not buy into the argument that women are weaker? And if women are weaker, well, the thought process can spiral out of control.

I equate it with the while name calling issue:
I am Mrs Evans-Wentz.
I am Serena Evans-Wentz.
I am Serena Evans.
I am Ms Serena Evans.

I am black.
I am an African American.
I am a person of color.

For me, everyone has a right to be called what they like but they shouldn't get too indignant if society or friends make a mistake. Same with the door opening. You may like it or even expect it but you can't get too upset or judgemental (and again, I'm not saying you do) if the rest of the world doesn't agree.

nah, Rancho, the worst is when your partner, the person you have chosen to be with, who you care for and nurture and love, doesn't make the effort to come around, open your car door, help you out of the car in your heels, squeeze your hand or peck your cheek, tell you you look wonderful, and hold you close as you walk to your destination together. That's the worst. Cause any man that doesn't do that, doesn't deserve to be cared for and nurtured and loved.

Somebody remind me to give my wonderful husband an extra hug when he walks through the door tonite!

Well, don't tell that to the Dykes on Bikes mob this weekend at the gay parade in San Francisco!

Just wondering - do you ever do this to your husband when you are the one driving (well, except the bit about the heels - my DH doesn't drive, and I never do this for him but am thinking maybe I should - that he would either be thrilled with the attention or think I've gone off my rocker).

Fly

Word.

When I'm opening a door for myself, if I'm aware someone is behind me I will hold it open for them at least until they can get in and take the door for themselves. To not do so seems rude or oblivious to those around you.

I like when a guy (any guy) holds the door for me, or allows me in or out of a elevator, bus, etc first. But I would never presume to be the one to go in and out first. It's just a nice & thoughtful touch when it happens. When getting out of the car, I always help myself naturally, but when arriving to the car hubby always goes to my side first to unlock it and let me in first, just out of habit I think. But it's a nice touch.

I don't think that's at the heart of rancho's point - whether it's true or not. The dilemma he correctly points out is that it's hard to reconcile this investment in old world manners with women's demands in other respects to be treated with gender-blindness.

Exactly.

Nope, I never drive when we go anywhere..He's a type A kind of person, and would not be comfortable with me opening his doors, as we see it as a gender specific consideration. there are other things that I do to show manners and respect, but opening doors is not one of them.

No, rancho called his grandma a beached whale!!! Do you think his grandma was out there, screaming for equal rights?

Amen.

I'm sorry- I wasn't clear! I think women who just sit there and demand it are the beached whales. My grandmother did what I think was very sweet and clever- she stalled and made the gesture seem so natural and my grandfather got to feel like a hero. When a woman says, "Aren't you going to open the door for me?" either verbally or with The Look, all she does is make him feel like a shitheel. My grandparents played a nuanced little game that was charming.

Mmm.

But that's not "old fashioned manners".

aaahhhh...."nuanced little games"...those are wonderful too, like old fashioned manners! like when said partner is helping you out of the car, and you make sure to flash him a little leg or adjust your cleavage just right...nothing overt, just a nuanced movement...

Yes, except when the holding actually leads to the lady (and others) being blocked from exiting. There have been many times when I wish the man would just leave first, in order to facilitate a smooth exit for everyone.

I agree. I appreciate the gesture but most of the time it's very awkward.