winesonoma
Mar 23 2005, 10:19 PM
Started sunny, now cloudy and windy, no petanque, bummer.
Wilfrid
Mar 23 2005, 10:20 PM
| QUOTE (Orik @ Mar 23 2005, 05:06 PM) |
| right, it should be pwonounced cowmel. |
As in cowmelized?
Orik
Mar 23 2005, 10:40 PM
| QUOTE (Wilfrid @ Mar 23 2005, 05:20 PM) |
| QUOTE (Orik @ Mar 23 2005, 05:06 PM) | | right, it should be pwonounced cowmel. |
As in cowmelized?
|
Bam. But cowmelized is in transition, it seems to be tending towards caamolized.
Daisy
Mar 23 2005, 10:41 PM
| QUOTE (Orik @ Mar 23 2005, 05:40 PM) |
| QUOTE (Wilfrid @ Mar 23 2005, 05:20 PM) | | QUOTE (Orik @ Mar 23 2005, 05:06 PM) | | right, it should be pwonounced cowmel. |
As in cowmelized?
|
Bam. But cowmelized is in transition, it seems to be tending towards caamolized.
|
That would be the influence of the Emeril inflection.
Tamar G
Mar 23 2005, 11:09 PM
| QUOTE (Tamar G @ Mar 22 2005, 03:39 PM) |
I chipped my front tooth (on a champagne bottle, no less). I've never chipped a tooth before.
and of course, this means GOING TO THE DENTIST. |
proud to report I have a lovely fixed tooth, completely undestinguishable from what it looked like a few days ago. It's amazing how they do that, and it took all of about 15 minutes. No whiskey afterwards, I'm afraid, but I did get a green tea beard papas creme puff.
NeroW
Mar 23 2005, 11:47 PM
| QUOTE (guajolote @ Mar 23 2005, 01:50 AM) |
| QUOTE (tanabutler @ Mar 22 2005, 07:48 PM) | I just hate music that's based in so much negativity. Hate. It. |
i would say a song about a blowjob would be positive  . |
robert40
Mar 24 2005, 12:18 AM
Well this went through the roof. I had a local news team at my home this evening.
hollywood
Mar 24 2005, 12:22 AM
| QUOTE (robert40 @ Mar 23 2005, 04:18 PM) |
Well this went through the roof. I had a local news team at my home this evening. |
About the teacher?
Robert Schonfeld
Mar 24 2005, 12:30 AM
| QUOTE (Daisy @ Mar 23 2005, 05:01 PM) |
| People pronouncing c-a-r-a-m-e-l as "car-mel". |
How about joolery? Or nucular? Re the latter, I have heard people besides the President pronounce it that way. Is it possible this is an acceptable alternate pronounciation?
Cathy
Mar 24 2005, 12:33 AM
| QUOTE (Robert Schonfeld @ Mar 23 2005, 07:30 PM) |
| QUOTE (Daisy @ Mar 23 2005, 05:01 PM) | | People pronouncing c-a-r-a-m-e-l as "car-mel". |
How about joolery? Or nucular? Re the latter, I have heard people besides the President pronounce it that way. Is it possible this is an acceptable alternate pronounciation?
|
I always thought 'nucular' was regional.
g.johnson
Mar 24 2005, 12:37 AM
Would anyone say 'nucular family'?
robert40
Mar 24 2005, 12:43 AM
| QUOTE (hollywood @ Mar 21 2005, 10:22 PM) |
| QUOTE (robert40 @ Mar 23 2005, 04:18 PM) | Well this went through the roof. I had a local news team at my home this evening. |
About the teacher?
|
Yes.
Leslie
Mar 24 2005, 01:21 AM
Good. The public has a right to know that type of music is being played in classrooms with 12 year olds, at least by this particular teacher. You've done a public service, and raised awareness, which is good.
monkeymay
Mar 24 2005, 01:34 AM
My Epstein-Barr shit has kicked in again and now I've got bronchitis, have to start taking these enormous antibiotic pills to kick this cough. And I had two moles shaved off my face because my ENT doc is concerned with their appearance. Ugh.
Not a happy girl today.
mongo_jones
Mar 24 2005, 01:52 AM
| QUOTE (Leslie @ Mar 23 2005, 06:21 PM) |
Good. The public has a right to know that type of music is being played in classrooms with 12 year olds, at least by this particular teacher. You've done a public service, and raised awareness, which is good. |
is that type of music being played in classrooms for 12 year olds by this teacher or was this one incident?
at this point i have to say i can't decide whether public awareness is being raised or the potential for hysteria being created. i'm not saying there's any justification for someone to knowingly expose children to those lyrics in a school environment (though a lot of p-13 movies contain a lot more innuendo). but i haven't read anything in this thread yet that convinces me that this teacher is a sexual threat to children. all i know for sure is that he's a bit of an idiot--but his worst crime may possibly be trying to seem cool to 12 year olds. as to whether this deserves television coverage and likely stigmatization i'm not so sure.
Leslie
Mar 24 2005, 02:00 AM
| QUOTE (mongo_jones @ Mar 23 2005, 05:52 PM) |
| QUOTE (Leslie @ Mar 23 2005, 06:21 PM) | Good. The public has a right to know that type of music is being played in classrooms with 12 year olds, at least by this particular teacher. You've done a public service, and raised awareness, which is good. |
is that type of music being played in classrooms for 12 year olds by this teacher or was this one incident?
at this point i have to say i can't decide whether public awareness is being raised or the potential for hysteria being created. i'm not saying there's any justification for someone to knowingly expose children to those lyrics in a school environment (though a lot of p-13 movies contain a lot more innuendo). but i haven't read anything in this thread yet that convinces me that this teacher is a sexual threat to children. all i know for sure is that he's a bit of an idiot--but his worst crime may possibly be trying to seem cool to 12 year olds. as to whether this deserves television coverage and likely stigmatization i'm not so sure.
|
The thing is, we should expect higher teaching standards from our schools than we do from MTV or movies. Someone has to be the grownup and held responsible, and that would be the teacher,( not the 12 year olds). I think it was good the student spoke to her parents about the music in the classroom and described it as nasty. She has more common sense than the teacher, it seems.
A story like this opens dialogue.
mongo_jones
Mar 24 2005, 02:07 AM
| QUOTE (Leslie @ Mar 23 2005, 07:00 PM) |
| A story like this opens dialogue. |
is that what it does? i have to say you have far greater faith in the contemporary newsmedia's interest in dialogue than i do.
and i'm not saying the girl shouldn't have told robert about it or that she and her classmates are somehow responsible...
the teacher can be held responsible and disciplined, if necessary, without the whole world getting involved. if "dialogue" is needed it can be far more productively arrived at via a school investigation into this teacher's classroom practices--to see if this is even representative of what he normally does--followed by conversation at a pta meeting. instead i suspect it will be a lurid soundbite at 7pm "tonight at 10--local teacher plays raunchy hip-hop to 12 year old girls" juxtaposed with michael jackson, and within a week this will turn entirely into hysteria about "values" which will change nothing and do nothing for anyone.
Leslie
Mar 24 2005, 02:22 AM
He said the 'local' news. I think it could qualify as a local news story. I already mentioned I personally didn't give the teacher the benefit of the doubt, since as a music teacher, it's his business to know music and what he is teaching. And if he places more importance on trying to be 'cool' with the 12 year olds than he does on being the grownup, the responsible one who has been entrusted with the education of children, well, I don't have much sympathy for him. Sorry.
mongo_jones
Mar 24 2005, 02:27 AM
| QUOTE (Leslie @ Mar 23 2005, 07:22 PM) |
| He said the 'local' news. I think it could qualify as a local news story. I already mentioned I personally didn't give the teacher the benefit of the doubt, since as a music teacher, it's his business to know music and what he is teaching. And if he places more importance on trying to be 'cool' with the 12 year olds than he does on being the grownup, the responsible one who has been entrusted with the education of children, well, I don't have much sympathy for him. Sorry. |
i'd like to think there's some middle-ground between not having sympathy for someone for possibly doing no more than exercising bad judgement and wishing the local news media on to them. (i have assumed that local news team=television.)
this may well be an ongoing annoyance in its own right: when was the last time you saw local news handle anything like this in a responsible manner?
edit: i'm not questioning whether this qualifies as local news--it probably does. i'm questioning this idea of "dialogue" coming from it. what the medium is good at is whipping up hysteria and self-righteous indignation, and i suspect it is more likely to slant that way than towards "dialogue". how much dialogue does this need anyway? if he does this all the time, fire him. if he doesn't make sure he understands he needs to listen to the lyrics of songs he plays to children and find sound pedagogical reason for whatever he's playing. on the other hand if he's playing gilbert and sullivan to them fry the bastard!
Leslie
Mar 24 2005, 02:35 AM
I have to admit I don't watch too much local news lately.
But the local news team (on all 3 major stations) where I live, and I've lived here a long time, is well regarded. They handle the local news responsibly, imo, so that speaks well for Seattle.
Leslie
Mar 24 2005, 02:41 AM
| QUOTE (mongo_jones @ Mar 23 2005, 06:27 PM) |
| .. if he doesn't make sure he understands he needs to listen to the lyrics of songs he plays to children and find sound pedagogical reason for whatever he's playing. on the other hand if he's playing gilbert and sullivan to them fry the bastard! |
I'm trying to think what we did in music class as 12 year olds. Oh yes...we used to sing corny songs like "Bye bye blackbird".
My how times have changed!
robert40
Mar 24 2005, 03:09 AM
| QUOTE (mongo_jones @ Mar 21 2005, 11:52 PM) |
| QUOTE (Leslie @ Mar 23 2005, 06:21 PM) | Good. The public has a right to know that type of music is being played in classrooms with 12 year olds, at least by this particular teacher. You've done a public service, and raised awareness, which is good. |
is that type of music being played in classrooms for 12 year olds by this teacher or was this one incident?
at this point i have to say i can't decide whether public awareness is being raised or the potential for hysteria being created. i'm not saying there's any justification for someone to knowingly expose children to those lyrics in a school environment (though a lot of p-13 movies contain a lot more innuendo). but i haven't read anything in this thread yet that convinces me that this teacher is a sexual threat to children. all i know for sure is that he's a bit of an idiot--but his worst crime may possibly be trying to seem cool to 12 year olds. as to whether this deserves television coverage and likely stigmatization i'm not so sure.
|
You raise a valid point and these are all issues that I spent the last 48 hours considering. But let me give you a update on what took place today.
First, after four messages the principal is still not returning my call's.
Then this afternoon I receive an email from the Director Of Secondary Instruction /Personnel. Part of I pasted below.
I had spoken to Mr. _______ about this situation earlier today, and I am aware of what occurred in Mr. _______'s classroom. Because it is a personnel matter, I am not able to discuss details about this situation, but please know that the district does not approve of the lyrics of the type presented in the classroom, and that steps are being taken in this matter.
I am troubled by what is 'personnel' and why the details about the situation can't be discussed with me. For Gods sake the situation was my daughter!
Should this not been a case where all the cards are put on the table and the parent is insured this was a mistake that won't be repeated ?
I am a reasonable man. Give me some explanation and I will gladly listen.
Tell me look the kids get out of hand and I made a poor choice by letting them play CDs just to get them out of my hair. Fine, I will accept it. But just don't ignore me and think I will go away.
Should this teachers career be jeopardized by making a poor choice? Of course not! But I gave them the opportunity to open dialogue and they refused.
And if this by chance was a red flag and some child down the road is victimized how could I live with myself having seen the warning.
This was not a easy day at all.
mongo_jones
Mar 24 2005, 03:29 AM
robert,
it seems like the school is being highly irresponsible as well. this is what has happened in our times: everything has become nightmarishly bureaucratic and the first and last response is towards risk-management. i sympathize with your frustrated attempts to try and resolve this. so, did you get the sense that this was merely one misguided mistake on the teacher's part?
mongo
NeroW
Mar 24 2005, 03:41 AM
What sort of annoys me is that the local news story could be just more free publicity for 50 Cent. Disclaimer: I like 50. He's alright.
Rose
Mar 24 2005, 03:43 AM
| QUOTE (robert40 @ Mar 23 2005, 07:18 PM) |
Well this went through the roof. I had a local news team at my home this evening. |
Fox, no doubt.
I don't think words of songs can be innately harmful to children even though they may be distasteful to me, that is, unless they're maliciously directed at a particular child or group of children. Not so very long ago people were afraid to have children hear the word "damn".
robert40
Mar 24 2005, 03:44 AM
| QUOTE (mongo_jones @ Mar 22 2005, 01:29 AM) |
robert,
it seems like the school is being highly irresponsible as well. this is what has happened in our times: everything has become nightmarishly bureaucratic and the first and last response is towards risk-management. i sympathize with your frustrated attempts to try and resolve this. so, did you get the sense that this was merely one misguided mistake on the teacher's part?
mongo |
I really hope it was just a misguided mistake but by ignoring me I'm not able to form a opinion.
You are so right by it being the times. I am from the old school where tell me like man that you made a mistake and I'll accept it as we all make them.
But not today.
omnivorette
Mar 24 2005, 03:48 AM
Well if it was just a mistake on Mr. ______'s part, he is sure paying a high price. His life is ruined.
On the other hand, if he indeed had malevolent intentions toward his students, this is a good thing.
Rose
Mar 24 2005, 03:54 AM
| QUOTE (omnivorette @ Mar 23 2005, 10:48 PM) |
Well if it was just a mistake on Mr. _____'s part, he is sure paying a high price. His life is ruined.
|
and for what? playing a song? this sounds equitable to you?
Were the children traumatized? I doubt it. It's a sorry state of affairs that a person's career has to be ended over a song.
omnivorette
Mar 24 2005, 03:56 AM
But Rose, if the guy was using music to gain sexual access to his students, then it's good that it was exposed.
Then again, it would have been nice if an investigation could have been done quietly to determine what happened and what should happen.
This teacher's life is basically over at this point.
Rose
Mar 24 2005, 04:02 AM
| QUOTE (omnivorette @ Mar 23 2005, 10:56 PM) |
But Rose, if the guy was using music to gain sexual access to his students, then it's good that it was exposed.
Then again, it would have been nice if an investigation could have been done quietly to determine what happened and what should happen.
This teacher's life is basically over at this point. |
I know what your saying but unless there is some evidence that that was what he was doing, he has been done a huge disservice. Tell me he did or said something to support evidence that he had bad intentions and then I'll feel otherwise but just playing a recording of a publickly available piece of music is not sufficient reason for him to be ruined.
Have a private conference with the principal or something, not a news cast.
omnivorette
Mar 24 2005, 04:05 AM
I totally agree with you.
Who alerted the media???
Rose
Mar 24 2005, 04:06 AM
And don't for one minute think I like rap music because I can't stand it. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just saying that JUST playing a song to kids, a song that's on the radio (if they even ever listen to a radio) and on MTV may be a stupid career move but it's not enough to ruin this guy's life.
Rose
Mar 24 2005, 04:10 AM
| QUOTE (omnivorette @ Mar 23 2005, 11:05 PM) |
I totally agree with you.
Who alerted the media??? |
I assume (perhaps incorrectly) Robert or perhaps a group of parents. Sounds like a misguided attempt to "correct" the situation.
I remain open to being wrong if there's any other incriminating evidence but at this point I think the guy is much more harmed than any of the children.
robert40
Mar 24 2005, 04:16 AM
Edited to delete.
omnivorette
Mar 24 2005, 04:18 AM
Robert, did it occur to you that perhaps they were constrained - perhaps they needed to confer with the school board, with attorneys? Perhaps they needed to interview the teacher, other teachers...?
To alert the media, to ruin this guy's life, just because a school administrator didn't get back to you soon enough? You heard about this FOR THE FIRST TIME on Monday afternoon. You couldn't wait a little? How about calling the school board - what else did you try before calling the media and destroying this guy?
robert40
Mar 24 2005, 04:23 AM
| QUOTE (omnivorette @ Mar 22 2005, 02:18 AM) |
| Robert, did it occur to you that perhaps they were constrained - perhaps they needed to confer with the school board, with attorneys? Perhaps they needed to interview the teacher, other teachers...? To alert the media, to ruin this guy's life, just because a school administrator didn't get back to you soon enough? |
Sure it occured to me. But did I not even warrant a return call even if it was to say we are looking into the matter and will get back to you once we have the facts?
Rose
Mar 24 2005, 04:25 AM
I raised two children (boys, I must admit) and I know what it is to have those fierce feelings of protection for my child. I was quite over the top actually. As a matter of fact I once picked up a two-year-old by the shirt who was bullying my 18 month old and threatened to kill him, I kid you not

BUT I strongly feel that unless you can tell me something more incriminating about this teacher, he's getting a raw deal. Words of songs alone do not harm children.
omnivorette
Mar 24 2005, 04:26 AM
So because a school administrator didn't call you back as quickly as you would have liked, you think it was okay to destroy a person's life and career? It's only Wednesday today. You only heard about it on Monday afternoon. You called the school for the first time on Tuesday? When did you alert the media? Don't you think a bit more patience, or perhaps some calls to the school board or something might have been warranted before destroying this guy?
omnivorette
Mar 24 2005, 04:32 AM
| QUOTE (robert40 @ Mar 23 2005, 11:23 PM) |
| QUOTE (omnivorette @ Mar 22 2005, 02:18 AM) | | Robert, did it occur to you that perhaps they were constrained - perhaps they needed to confer with the school board, with attorneys? Perhaps they needed to interview the teacher, other teachers...? To alert the media, to ruin this guy's life, just because a school administrator didn't get back to you soon enough? |
Sure it occured to me. But did I not even warrant a return call even if it was to say we are looking into the matter and will get back to you once we have the facts?
|
So you are punishing them for not feeling that an immediate call back was warranted? And you're not punishing the administrator anyway...you're punishing the teacher who should be deemed innocent until proven otherwise.
robert40
Mar 24 2005, 04:39 AM
If this man was my next door neighbor and he had young girls over listening to music about oral sex, people would advise me never to let my daughter in his presence again. But God forbid if its a Doctor, Teacher or 'Priest' we should give him another chance.
I am not nearly as offended by him letting my daughter listen to the song as I am concerned about what his motive was.
Leslie
Mar 24 2005, 04:56 AM
robert has given an explanation. Some agree, some don't. Let's move on, please.
robert40
Mar 24 2005, 05:06 AM
If I destroyed the teachers career and it was an honest mistake then I will have to live with my choice as upsetting as it is.
If I saved a child from harm then I did the right thing.
If a had to gamble I'll choose the later.
We all make choices in life, and if your a teacher and you chose to subject your students to lyrics about oral sex, then you are jeopardizing your own career.
mongo_jones
Mar 24 2005, 05:17 AM
| QUOTE (robert40 @ Mar 23 2005, 10:06 PM) |
If I destroyed the teachers career and it was an honest mistake then I will have to live with my choice as upsetting as it is.
If I saved a child from harm then I did the right thing. If a had to gamble I'll choose the later.
We all make choices in life, and if your a teacher and you chose to subject your students to lyrics about oral sex, then you are jeopardizing your own career. |
robert, i think the idea is that you may possibly have moved a little too quickly, and with too blunt an object in your hand.
and as a teacher myself let me say that there's no indication that he "chose to subject [his] students to lyrics about oral sex". he may have simply chosen to play them a hit song while being enough of a ditz to not pay attention to what the lyrics were. though i do understand that in this climate it may be harder for you to take this more generous position when it is your daughter that's involved.
but do let us know how this pans out. i'm intrigued.
Orik
Mar 24 2005, 05:26 AM
Americans
Do they teach Poe in school here? 'cause some of his songs... I tell ya.
omnivorette
Mar 24 2005, 05:35 AM
| QUOTE (robert40 @ Mar 24 2005, 12:06 AM) |
If I destroyed the teachers career and it was an honest mistake then I will have to live with my choice as upsetting as it is.
If I saved a child from harm then I did the right thing. If a had to gamble I'll choose the later.
|
All I'm saying is that you could have waited a bit longer, or called someone higher up the chain, before taking such a drastic and potentially ruinous step.
Rose
Mar 24 2005, 05:49 AM
This is the annoyances thread after all:
My husband just made up what he thinks is a great name for a rapper:
Doctor Dumphukk
I hate to break the bad news to him. Not
ngatti
Mar 24 2005, 06:17 AM
Ladies, remember our conversation about fathers and daughters the other evening. It is so hard for us to step back and have a breather before the whatever. Actually I'm surprised Robert didn't throttle the guy straight away.
My eleven year old daughter learned about oral sex from a President of the United States. Imagine my impotence. She's now eighteen. I'm finally over it.
Rose
Mar 24 2005, 06:25 AM
| QUOTE (ngatti @ Mar 24 2005, 01:17 AM) |
Ladies, remember our conversation about fathers and daughters the other evening. It is so hard for us to step back and have a breather before the whatever. Actually I'm surprised Robert didn't throttle the guy straight away.
My ten year old daughter learned about oral sex from a President of the United States. Imagine my impotence. She's now eighteen. I'm finally over it. |
I don't for one minute think you'd call the press, Mr. Gatti. Maybe punch him out

but that'd be far kinder and fairer.
She didn't learn about it from the President either. It was that lovely Linda person. I'm sure all our Presidents got blow jobs. Okay, maybe not Coolidge.
hollywood
Mar 24 2005, 04:27 PM
I sympathize with your situation. I think the principal is probably scared shitless and has been advised to hold off responding to you. He's caught in a dilemma with your bona fide complaint on the one hand and trying to avoid violating the teacher's due process rights on the other. The last thing he wants is to get the district sued for creating a hostile work environment and have to pay off the teacher for his alleged emotional distress. So, he has to tread lightly and conduct a fair investigation before announcing his findings and any punishment. He's probably doubly gunshy about talking to you at this point since you have gone to the media and he feels he can't tell you what he thinks for fear it will come back at him in the media. Still, at some point (and I assume there's some protocol for this) he's got to have some sort of meeting with you and perhaps your daughter as well. Good luck.
Wilfrid
Mar 24 2005, 04:38 PM
Hollywood is doubtless right. The principal cannot treat the matter informally at this stage. Meanwhile, I'd like to remind everyone that this is a public web-site, and that wild speculation about the teacher and his motives and all the rest of it is completely out of place here.
In my personal opinion, this has become a completely inappropriate subject for a site of this kind.
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